Ratzinger strikes again at the "filth" in the Church

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/world-news/detail/articolo/papa-pedofilia-scandali-abusi-revoca-decreto-legionari-di-cristo-477/

The Pope has not vacillated in the face of all kinds of old and new scandals that have surfaced

andrea tornielli
Vatican City

The earthshaking decision to remove the monks from the Basilica of the Santa Croce in Gerusalemme (Basilica of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem), where they had been for five centuries, is another sign of how the “gentle rule” of Benedict XVI can also be decisive and drastic when it comes to eliminating that “filth” in the Church, the existence of which was denounced by Cardinal Ratzinger six years ago during the Way of the Cross. The decree of the Congregation for Religious which suppressed the abbey come two years after the removal of the abbot, who was much talked about for the less than transparent management of his community and his friendships.

The Pope has not vacillated in the face of all kinds of old and new scandals that have surfaced. For example, he has established standards that are even more severe than the ones he suggested to John Paul II 10 years ago. The victims take priority, as he first showed with his personal stance and now with the new guidelines on abuse aimed at the bishops’ conferences and published last Monday. He has charged the bishops with the responsibility of serving as “fathers and brothers” to their clergy. But most importantly, he has acted, far from the spotlight, with determination during the first six years of his papacy.

One month after he was elected in May 2005, Ratzinger banned Father Gino Burresi, founder of the Congregation of the Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, from any public ministry for sexually abusing his young followers. The priest had been the object of huge coverage for years and the offences he had committed had expired under the statue of limitations. Shortly thereafter came the famous decision on Father Macial Maciel, the former founder of the Legion of Christ, who was found guilty of serious abuse.

In September 2008, Benedict XVI laicized don Lelio Cantini, the charismatic priest from Florence and leader of an active community that saw a number of clergymen emerge from its ranks. He too was guilty of repeatedly abusing minors. In July of the following year, he cracked down on a German clergyman belonging to the Missionaries of the Holy Family of Munich, while in February 2010, with a decree that cannot be appealed, Ratzinger defrocked don Marco Dessi, a missionary in Nicaragua, before the end of his civil trial for sexually abusing minors. The following month, don Andrea Agostini, a priest in the diocese of Bologna who supervised a catholic nursery school in Ferrara, was dismissed from the clerical state for pedophilia. In October 2010, don Nello Giraudo from the diocese of Savona met the same fate, while at the beginning of this year Fernando Karadima, the powerful and influential priest from Chile, was forced to retire despite the fact that the offences had expired under the statute of limitations. A quick decision is also expected regarding don Riccardo Seppia, the priest from Genoa who is a cocaine addict and predator of young boys.

A year ago, at the height of the scandals that occurred mainly in the United States, Ireland and Germany, Benedict XVI made a dramatic pronouncement that «the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from enemies on the outside» but «is born from the sins within the church». He linked these events to the message of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Portugal during the last century, claiming that «We delude ourselves if we think that the prophetic mission of Fatima has come to an end».

In the interview book “Light of the World”, the Pope also supported the media and their role in the affair «The media would not have been able to provide those reports if the sin had not existed in the Church...as long as it is a matter of bringing the truth to light, we should be grateful». A lesson of great humility, which seen from the outside could be even better understood inside the Church.

SOLA SCRIPTURA by John Guest

http://thesplendorofthechurch.blogspot.com/2011/07/sola-scriptura-by-john-guest.html

Sola Scriptura is one of the two major Sola doctrines of Reformed theology. It is defined as the "teaching that the Scriptures contain all that is necessary for salvation and proper living before God" and that "the Old and New Testaments are the final authority in all that they address" (CARM). The problems with Sola Scriptura vary.

*If the Bible is the final or sole authority, then why did it take the Church to formalize a set Canon of Scriptures, since the Bible is silent on such a thing? The statement that the Canon is made simply by Christ and the Apostles quoting from books is a fallible one, because some that they do not quote directly from with "It is written" are Esther, Song of Songs, and Ecclesiastes. Yet some apocryphal books are mentioned or quoted: the Book of Enoch (Jude 14-15), the Assumption of Moses (Jude 9), and the Epistle to the Laodiceans (Colossians 4:16).

*Sola Scriptura is very different among different churches. For Lutherans, Sola Scriptura is radically different from what it is to Baptists. For Baptists, it is a bit different from what it is to Pentecostals. For Pentecostals, it is very different from what it is to Methodists. On top of that, Sola Scriptura can be used both by conservative and liberal churches, each claiming they go by what the Bible literally says. In my conversations with Fundamentalists, the have told me there is no such thing as a true or infallible Church, but only what the Bible says and does not say; hence, the status of a person or church being doctrinally sound depends on their interpretation of the Bible. So, can a church go from doctrinally sound to unsound or vice versa? Apparently so; many churches become 'pro-choice' while many other become pro-life; others go from low church liturgy to high church liturgy. There are over 33,000 denominations claiming they interpret the Bible infallibly and cling to Sola Scriptura. I ask many, which is the true biblical church? Not one has answered me this; one answered, "I personally think..." Unfortunately, when we explain that we disagree with Sola Scriptura, many get the assumption that we hate the Bible and do not believe that the Bible has everything we need for edification in the faith. The reason we disagree with Sola Scriptura is because it is an attempt to interpret the Bible for oneself independent of the authority of the Church; it is because this doctrine allows for one to interpret what they say is or is not in the Bible instead of what necessarily is or is not in the Bible.

*I have talked with Fundamentalists who say, "Sola Scriptura is what Jesus and the apostles taught." Really?! They back this up with the fact that they quote from books in the Bible with authority, saying, "It is written." They ignore how many times Christ spoke in parables, things which were not written in the Old Testament books. Quoting from the Bible is useful, since the Bible is an extremely sourceful and reliable book -- and is inspired or 'breathed by God' [theopneustos] (2 Timothy 3:16) -- but that does not mean the Bible alone (Sola Scriptura) is authoritative. They completely ignore that the Bible itself does not give itself sole authority, yet it says that the Church is the 'pillar and foundation of truth' (1 Timothy 3:15). Our Lord told His Apostles that one should "tell the Church" and "if he refuses to listen even to the Church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or tax collector" (Matthew 18:17). This verse indicates the authority of the Church as given by Christ Himself, who is the husband of the Church (Ephesians 5:23) and has founded His Church upon the Apostles (Ephesians 2:20). The foundation of the Church upon the Apostles means that this power is transfered from the Apostles to their successors: priests, bishops and popes. They have the power of 'binding and loosing' (Matthew 18:18), meaning they have the power of excommunication and absolution, but also of interpreting Scriptures according to the authority of the Church. Jesus told the disciples and Apostles everything that the Old Testament that spoke about Jesus, then this was transfered through oral tradition from the Apostles to the other Christians: e.g. Saint Philip was ordained as a deacon of Jerusalem by the Apostles (Acts 6:5-7), they taught Philip the word of God [orally], who taught it orally to the Ethiopian eunuch and he interpreted Isaiah 53 for him (Acts 8:26-35). This expresses the authority of the early Church in the apostles, presbyters, bishops and evangelists; this power is transfered from them to today's clergy; something called Apostolic Succession [see more later].

*If there was not an official Canon of Scriptures until the late 4th century, then how could the Church go by the Bible alone? The books now called divinely inspired are authentic books: the Holy Spirit has guided the Church since the beginning to determine this, yet the Church highly relied on Apostolic Tradition [see more later]. We are told to hold fast to the traditions we were taught "either by oral statement or by a letter" (2 Thessalonians 2:15). One may use many Scripture verses [as I do], but as long as one's interpretation does not contradict that of the Church.

*It is said, "In them [letters] there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort as they do the other Scriptures" (2 Peter 3:16). That is a major reason why the Church -- buided by the Holy Spirit and Apostolic Tradition -- is necessary for interpretation. In Haydock's Commentary, George Leo Haydock speaks on 2 Timothy 3:16: "As to the first, does this follow; the Scriptures must be read by Timothy, a priest, a bishop, a man of God, a minister of the gospel, whose office it is to instruct and convert others, therefore they are proper to be read and expounded by every ignorant man or woman? Does not St. Paul say elsewhere, (2 Corinthians 2:17) that many adulterate and corrupt the word of God...But if we would have the whole rule of Christian faith and practice, we must not be content with those Scriptures which Timothy knew from his infancy, (that is, with the Old Testament alone) nor yet with the New Testament, without taking along with it the traditions of the apostles and the interpretation of the Church, to which the apostles delivered both the book and the true meaning of it (Challoner)." By the time that the Second Epistle to Saint Timothy was written, the Church used only the Old Testament, which prophesied about Our Lord. How do we even know the New Testament is divinely inspired? We know because the Church, as moved by the Spirit, has declared such.

The Catechism greatly explains the relationship between Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition: "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal." Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own 'always, to the close of the age'" (#80).

UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST

http://thesplendorofthechurch.blogspot.com/2011/07/united-church-of-christ-voted-to-remove.html

UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST VOTED TO REMOVE 'HEAVENLY FATHER' FROM ITS CONSTITUTION

Delegates at the United Church of Christ's General Synod 28 recently voted overwhelmingly in favor of amending the denomination's constitution so that the phrase “heavenly Father” will no longer be present anywhere in its text.

Instead of reading “A Local Church is composed of persons who, believing in God as heavenly Father,” under the proposal, Article V of the church constitution would read, “A Local Church is composed of persons who, believing in the triune God.”

Delegates passed the proposal 613 to 161 in favor of the changes to the text, as reported by UCNews. Ten delegates abstained from voting.

So why the changes?

The UCC wants to broaden the phrase so as not to be exclusive in its language. Barb Powell, a spokesperson for the denomination, spoke to World Net Daily about the inclusive language already used among many UCC congregations. “In the UCC, our language for God, Christ and the Holy Spirit … is preferred to be more open for different expressions of the Trinity,” she said. “Heavenly Father is just one vision.”

The Biblical Witness Fellowship, a group of UCC pastors and church members that was formed in response to “UCC's theological surrender to the moral and spiritual confusion of contemporary culture,” made their disapproval of the decision clear. David Runnion-Bareford, executive director of BWF and a leader who supported keeping “heavenly Father” in the language of the constitution, spoke out on the organization's website before the vote was taken in Tampa, Fla., last weekend.

“Rejecting God as Father in an age of fatherlessness is unthinkable,” he said. “God acted toward us in amazing grace when He offered to be our Father through the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ who offers us life in his name. This is not something we as humans made up in some other time. Rejecting our Father is act of arrogant rebellion in the name of cultural conformity that only further alienates members, churches, but more importantly God himself.”

Other changes to the constitution include a change in the governing body's structure, though the “heavenly Father” debate is among the most polarizing.

The Rev. Bennett Guess, another spokesperson for the UCC, doesn't see a problem with the changes.

“We are still a Trinitarian denomination,” Guess saidm, USA Today reported. “This was not a theological document. It was a restructuring from five boards to one. And in doing this, we dealt with bylaws written decades ago, before the denomination's commitment to using inclusive and expansive imagery for God.”

The changes to the denomination's constitution are now in the hands of the 38 Conferences of the United Church of Christ, which will decide whether or not to ratify the document before the next General Synod in 2013.

SOURCE: The ChristianPost.com

http://www.christianpost.com/news/united-church-of-christ-votes-to-take-heavenly-father-out-of-constitution-51934/

The Errors of Zionism and the Protestant “Rapture”

The Errors of Zionism and the Protestant “Rapture”

John Salza, Esq.

Many Protestant sects have created a cottage industry of books, tracts, TV and radio surrounding the secret “rapture” of Christians up into heaven during the last days. It is generally part of a greater eschatological worldview that sees the restoration of Israel as a sign of the end-times, which is often referred to as “Zionism.” Christian Zionists believe that, once Israel’s land is restored and its ancient borders are secured, Christ will come again to rule with the Jews in Israel for a millennium, based on the “1,000 years” of Apoc. 20:2-6. During His reign, Zionists say that Christ will appoint 144,000 Jewish leaders to rule with Him over the Gentiles until the end of the world (Apoc. 7:4; 14:1,3).

Prior to Christ’s earthly reign from Jerusalem, however, these Protestants believe that Gentile Christians who are still living at this time will be secretly taken up into heaven. This will pave the way for the Jews to rule with Jesus for the millennial period. They call this secret taking of Christians up to heaven “The Rapture,” and base this belief on St. Paul’s revelations to the Thessalonians:
“For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thess. 4:15-17).



The “Rapture” (a word that is not used in Scripture) will supposedly occur in connection with a period of tribulation for the Church (based in part on Dan. 9:27). Some Zionists believe the rapture will occur before the tribulation, and are thus called “pre-tribulation” rapturists. Some believe the rapture will occur during the tribulation (“mid-tribulation” rapturists), and some believe the rapture will take place at the end of the tribulation (“post-tribulation” rapturists).
This schema of events can be summarized as follows:
Tribulation (7 years) Christ’s 1,000 year reign The end _________________|____________________________________|
Pre mid post
(Rapture)



After the period of tribulation and rapture, Christ and the Jews will supposedly rule the Gentiles through an earthly kingdom for 1,000 years. During Christ’s millennial reign, most Zionists believe that there will be a mass conversion of the Jews to Christianity. They base their conclusion on St. Paul’s innocuous statement in Romans 11:26 that “all Israel should be saved,”
even though the “Israel” of the New Covenant is the Catholic Church, not the Jewish people (cf. Galatians 6:16). At the end of the millennial period, Christ is to bring an end to the world and judge the living and the dead.


Needless to say, this Zionist / Rapture eschatology, which is held by most Fundamentalist, Pentecostal and Evangelical Protestant sects, is one of the biggest falsehoods ever fabricated about the end times. As we will see, it is also plainly refuted by Scripture.

1. The Rapture is not a secret event.
Recall that Zionists believe Christians who are living right before Christ comes to rule for the 1,000 year period will be secretly taken up into heaven (although they differ on whether this will happen before, during or after the tribulation period that precedes the millennium). Because Zionists believe the rapture will be secret, it will be accompanied by confusion since unbelievers won’t understand what is going on.
However, the very Scripture passages that Protestants use to advance the “rapture” theory say something quite different about the phenomenon. Scripture says that the rapture will be no secret event, but will be accompanied by the Lords own “cry of command” from heaven, with the “archangel’s call,” and with “the sound of the trumpet of God” (1 Thess. 4:16). These cries, calls and trumpet blasts will not be secret, but public, as they will summon all of mankind to the General Judgment of Jesus Christ where He will publicly declare their eternal fate.


2. The Rapture occurs after the Resurrection on the last day.
Zionists believe that the rapture will occur before the millennial reign of Christ (either before, during or after the seven-year tribulation). After the rapture, Christ will rule from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Thus, Zionists separate the rapture from the end of the world by 1,000 to 1,007 years. The end of the world will immediately follow the millennial period, at which time Jesus will raise the living and the dead.
The Scriptures, however, say that the rapture occurs coincident with the end of the world, not a millennium before the end of the world. Again, turning to the “rapture” passage in 1 Thessalonians, St. Paul says: “For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep” (v.15). In other words, those Christians living at the time of the “rapture” are not taken first.
Instead, “the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” (vv.16-17). These passages clearly teach that the resurrection of the dead precedes the rapture. Therefore, to know when the rapture occurs, we must first know when the resurrection of the dead occurs.
Scripture teaches that the resurrection of the dead occurs on the “last day” of the world (John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48). Because the resurrection of the dead occurs on the “last day” of the world, and the rapture follows the resurrection, this means that the rapture also
occurs on the “last day” (there can be no day after the “last day”). Since the rapture occurs on the “last day,” it cannot occur on any other day (that is, there is no “pre-millennial” rapture as Protestants contend).

3. The Rapture is the raising of the righteous and the unrighteous at the same time.
As we have seen, the Zionist / Rapture eschatology holds that believing Gentile Christians will be taken up into heaven before the millennial reign of Christ to clear the way for the Jews. Christ will then choose 144,000 Jewish evangelists to rule with Him from an earthly kingdom in Jerusalem for 1,000 years. This reign supposedly brings about a mass conversion of the Jews by the end of the millennium period.
But we have already seen that the “rapture” occurs on the “last day” (John 6), and immediately follows the resurrection of the dead (1 Thess. 4:16-17). This necessarily means that the righteous and the unrighteous will be raised at the same time, because there is no day that can follow the “last day” where the unrighteous could be raised. Scripture confirms this conclusion. In John 5:28-29, the Lord Jesus says:“Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.”
Hence, both those who have done good and those who have done evil will rise at the same time. The good will be raised to life, and the evil will be raised to judgment. There is simply no exegetical basis for inserting a millennial period between the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. Thus, Scripture teaches that the rapture of the living occurs coincident with the resurrection of all of the dead, both the good and the evil, at the same time, on the last day of the world.


4. The Zionist / Rapturist eschatology requires at least “three comings of Christ.”
The Protestant scheme of a rapture preceding the millennium and final coming requires “three” comings of Christ. First, Christ came at the Incarnation. Second, Christ would come at the “rapture” to take Gentile Christians to heaven. Third, Christ would come to rule with the Jews for the 1,000 years until the end of the world when He will judge the living and the dead. This scheme is absolutely false and contradicts the perennial teachings of the Church. It is also refuted by Sacred Scripture. For example, St. Paul says in his letter to the Hebrews: “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment: So also Christ was offered once to exhause the sins of many; the second time he shall appear without sin to them that expect him unto salvation (Heb. 9:27-28).
St. Paul says that Christ will “appear a second time.” This second appearance of Christ is nothing short of His second and final appearance at the end of the world, when He will judge the living and the dead. Because this Second Coming of Christ refers to the end of the world, St. Paul says Christ “shall appear without sin” to those who expect His coming because He will have already rendered His judgments upon the wicked. In other words, at Christ’s second and final coming, there will be no millennial rule or mass conversion of the Jews, for the fate of all humanity will be sealed. For those who have done evil, it will be too late to repent. Those who
rejected Christ during their lives will lament their damnation, as Scripture reveals: “Behold, he cometh with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also that pierced him. And all the tribes of the earth shall bewail themselves because of him. Even so. Amen” (Apoc 1:7).
Closing
The Church has condemned this pre-millennial eschatology which was previously known as Chiliasm. Although Chiliasm was denounced by the early Church during the first few centuries of her existence, pre-millennialism came back in the 19th and 20th centuries with the wave of Protestant evangelicalism which started in Protestant England and was perpetuated in America by Cyrus Scofield. As a result, the Holy Office, on July 21, 1944 under Pope Pius XII, decreed:
“In recent times on several occasions this Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office has been asked what must be thought of the system of mitigated Millenarianism, which teaches, for example, that Christ the Lord before the final judgment, whether or not preceded by the resurrection of the many just, will come visibly to rule over this world. The answer is: The system of mitigated Millenarianism cannot be taught safely” (Denzinger 2296).

The traditional Catholic view is that the millennium of Apocalypse 20 began with the First Coming of Christ and symbolizes Christ’s reign during the age of the Church. This view holds that the Rapture occurs at the Second Coming of Christ, which is the end of the world. At this time, both the living and the dead will be resurrected to receive their reward or punishment. Because there is no millennial period between the Church age and the end of the world, the Catholic and Scriptural view is often called the “amillennial” view. This view was held by Saints Jerome, Augustine, Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa, Rufinus, Venerable Bede, Justin Martyr, Eusebius, Theodoret and Thomas Aquinas. Because the theory of a mass conversion of the Jews at the end times was based on the condemned view of Chiliasm, the “mass conversion” theory of the Jews is also erroneous, or dubious at best.
In summary, Zionism and the Rapture are part of an anti-Catholic movement that attempts to remove the Catholic Church as the fulfillment of biblical prophecies, and the only authoritative voice for interpreting those prophecies. This, of course, is the case for the rest of the errors of Protestantism.

Such Protestant eschatology stems from a false understanding of Scripture, which “the unlearned and unstable wrest to their own destruction” (2Pet 3:16).

Ultimately, these and all errors against the Faith are borne from a prideful refusal to submit to the Church of Jesus Christ which He established in His own blood. And because the Head cannot be separated from the Body, the Protestant rejection of the Church is a rejection of Jesus Christ Himself – a sin worse than the sin of unbelief of the pagans.

Post from Fr. Abe, CRS

http://thesplendorofthechurch.blogspot.com/search/label/700%20Club

To my Readers: I just want to share this article....The whole context is in tagalog....

TUGON SA SAMOT-SARING KABABAWAN NG MGA BORN-AGAIN

Sherry said...

Oo nga po nakita ko po yung palabas. Nakakagulat nga po eh. Pero alam niyo, nabasa ko rin po ang biblia, wala naman pong sinasabi don na lumuhod at maging deboto ng mga santo. Baka totoo nga na sinasaniban ito ng masasamang espiritu. Kasi meron po akong mga nakikita na kapag humawak sa Nazareno nagboboses dwende at kasama po yung pari na umaayon. Pero kung hindi nga po iyon ayon sa katuruan, dapat pagsabihan po natin ang paring yon kaya meron naipipipintas na ganoon!

At alam niyo nakakalungkot, may nagtanong po na Protestante sa REED namin sa la salle. Tinanong po siya kung maliligtas tayo sa paggawa ng mbuti, pero bakit namatay pa si Hesus para sa ating mga kasalanan? Sabi niya yun daw po ang itinadhana.

Kaso kung mababasa po natin sa mga sulat ni Pablo namatay po si Kristo para po pagbayaran ang mga kasalanan natin at hindi sa mabuting gawa para hindi tayo makapagmalaki.

Nakita po namin yung verse na yon, may iba po bang ibig sabihin yon? Sabi naman ng prof namin sabi sa Santiago ang pananampalataya na wlang gawa ay patay, sagot naman po ng Protestante naming kaklase, ang paggawa ng mabuti ay bunga ng Espiritu Santo kung talagang nananampalataya tayo. Kaya kung patuloy ang isang tao sa PAGGAWA ng masama kahit siya ay may pananampalataya, wala ang Espiritu sa kanya at siya nga ay patay. Mapupunta siya sa IMPYERNO!

At kung tutuusin po kahit ang Kristyano po sa bagong tipan ay hindi dinadasalan si Maria, hindi rin naman tinuro ng Panginoon yon. Kahit si Estaban na unang martyr ay hindi po dinadasalan. Kung tutuusin po, ipinagbabawal po sa lumang tipan ang dasalan ang mga patay. Eh PATAY po sila di ba?

Isa pa po. Mga ROMANO po nagpapako kay Hesus sa krus. Ano po ngayon yan?

Pasensya na po, pero ito ay mga bagay na bumabagabak sa akin. Kasi mas mabuti po na mas paniwalaan natin ang galing mismo sa bibig ng Panginoon kaysa sa turo ng tao lamang. Mahirap na, KALIGTASAN ng kaluluwa po ang nakataya dito. Gusto ko man makapgsalita pero nanggaling po sa Bibliya yung sinasabi nila. Eh baka kontrahin ko po ng katuruan lang ng katekismo, eh mas mabigat po ang Bibliya di po ba?

Fr. Abe, CRS said...

[Oo nga po nakita ko po yung palabas.]

NAKITA MO ANG KASINUNGALINGAN NG MGA PASTOR NYO?

[Nakakagulat nga po eh.]

TALAGA, NAGULAT KA? WOW ANG DRAMA MO NAMAN.

[Pero alam niyo,]

ALAM NAMIN NA BORN AGAIN KA RIN. HE HE HE

[nabasa ko rin po ang biblia, wala naman pong sinasabi don na lumuhod at maging deboto ng mga santo.]

TALAGA? IBIG SABIHIN DULING KA O NAGBUBULAGBULAGAN. KASI NAKASULAT SA BIBLIA NA ANG PAGLUHOD AY HINDI EXCLUSIVO SA DIOS LANG. MAY MGA TAO NA NILUHURAN SA BIBLIA. AT ANG BIBLIA AY NAGSASABI NA THE LORD WILL HONOR HIS SAINTS. ALAM MO BA YON? BAKA HINDI MO NABASA?

ANG DIOS AY NANGAKO NA IO- HONOUR NYA ANG MGA TAPAT SA KANYA. KAYA YAN ANG GINAWA NG DIOS SA MGA SANTO AT YAN ANG AMING GINAGAWA. ITO ANG PANGAKO NG DIOS:

1 Sam 2:30 "Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed."

YUNG MGA TAONG TAPAT SA DIOS AY HINDI NINYO DINADAKILA AT PINARARANGALAN KAYA SA DEMONIO KAYO. MAKA-HAYUP ANG INYONG PAG-IISIP HINDI MAKA DIOS. DAHIL ANG TURO NG BIBLIA AY DADAKILAIN ANG MGA SANTO:

Psalm 149:9 "To execute upon them the judgment written: this HONOUR have all his SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD."

KAYA TALAGANG SA DEMONIO ANG BORN AGAIN KASI WALANG SAINTS AT WALA RING HONORING OF THE SAINTS.

[Baka totoo nga na sinasaniban ito ng masasamang espiritu.]

ANG BABAING IYON AY TUTUONG SINASANIBAN NG MASAMANG ESPIRITU DAHIL HINDI SIYA TUNAY NA DEVOTO NG NAZARENO KUNDI NG DEMONIONG SUMASANIB SA KANYA. ANG NAZARENO AY SI CRISTO AYON SA BIBLIA:

Mt 2:23 "At siya'y dumating at tumahan sa isang bayang tinatawag na Nazaret; upang maganap ang mga sinalita ng mga propeta, na siya'y tatawaging NAZARENO." [ANG BIBLIA]

ANG GALIT AT AYAW SA NAZARENO AY MGA MASASAMANG ESPIRITU NA NASA PUSO NG MGA BORN AGAIN:

Mk 1:24 "Na nagsasabi, Anong pakialam namin sa iyo, Jesus ikaw na Nazareno? naparito ka baga upang kami'y puksain? Nakikilala kita kung sino ka, ang Banal ng Dios."

ANG DEMONIO GALIT SA NAZARENO DAHIL KILALA NIYA NA SI CRISTO ANG NAZARENO. IKAW AT ANG MGA KAURI MONG BORN AGAIN HINDI LANG DEMONIO ANG PAG-IISIP DAHIL MAS BOBO PA KAYO SA DEMONIO DAHIL HINDI NYO KILALA NA SI CRISTO ANG NAZARENO.

KAHIT MGA SIMPLENG TAO SA ISRAEL AY ALAM NA SI CRISTO ANG NAZARENO:

Mk 10:47 "At nang marinig niya na yao'y si Jesus na Nazareno, siya'y nagpasimulang magsisigaw, at nagsabi, Jesus, ikaw na anak ni David, mahabag ka sa akin."

KAYA PALPAK AT GUNGGONG ITONG MGA BORN AGAIN NA ITO.

[Kasi meron po akong mga nakikita na kapag humawak sa Nazareno nagboboses dwende at kasama po yung pari na umaayon.]

TALAGA SIGURO IKAW ANG SINASANIBAN NG DEMONIO KASI NAKITA MO YON. TUWING FIESTA NG NAZARENO AY NAKA TELEVISE ANG CELEBRATION WALANG NANGYAYARING GANYAN. KAYA OBVIOUS NA GAWA GAWA MO LAMANG IYAN. HE HE HE... AT SINONG PARI ANG SINAPIAN NG DWENDE? HE HE HE... ISA PA SA KATANGAHAN MO AY: "HINDI NANINIWALA ANG MGA CATOLICO SA DWENDE." MGA BORN AGAIN SIGURO NANINIWALA SA DWENDE. SIGURO UNANO ANG LAHI NYO, LAHI KAYO NG MGA DWENDE.

[Pero kung hindi nga po iyon ayon sa katuruan, dapat pagsabihan po natin ang paring yon kaya meron naipipipintas na ganoon!]

NAKU E TANGA KA PALA E. IKAW ANG NAKAKITA DYAN SA SINASABI MONG PARI E BAKIT HINDI MO PINAGSABIHAN. HA HA HA... KAMI WALA KAMING NAKIKITANG PARI NA NAGBOBOSES DWENDE DAHIL HUMAWAK SA NAZARENO. SINO YUNG PARI? SAANG SIMBAHAN NAKA-ASSIGN?

MANLOLOKO KA LANG OBVIOUS PA NA KATANGAHAN ANG PANLOLOKO MO. PAREHO KAYO NG 700 CLUB. NAKU IHA, UTAK GARAPATA ANG IYONG MGA RASON.

[At alam niyo nakakalungkot, may nagtanong po na Protestante sa REED namin sa la salle.]

TALAGA, LA SALLISTA KA? BAKIT HINDI KA INGLESERA? PEKE KA YATA E. HE HE HE... PARA KANG NAG-ARAL SA MGA UNKNOWN SCHOOLS NG BORN AGAIN NA MGA WALANG QUALITY ANG EDUKASYON.

[Tinanong po siya kung maliligtas tayo sa paggawa ng mbuti, pero bakit namatay pa si Hesus para sa ating mga kasalanan? Sabi niya yun daw po ang itinadhana.]

IBIG SABIHIN NAKATADHANA NA ANG LAHAT. GANON BA? SO YUNG PAGKAKANULO NI JUDAS AT ANG KASAMAAN NI ANAS AT CAIPAS AY NAKATADHANA NA, GANON BA? HA HA HA... BUANG!!! E KUNG NAKATADHANA NA YON E DI DIOS ANG PINAGMULAN NG KASAMAAN DAHIL SYA ANG NAGTADHANA SA MGA TRAIDOR AT MGA CRIMINAL. BAKIT PARURUSAHAN ANG MGA MASAMA E SINUNOD LANG NILA ANG ITINADHANA SA KANILA. HA HA HA... NAPAKA GUNGGONG.

[Kaso kung mababasa po natin sa mga sulat ni Pablo namatay po si Kristo para po pagbayaran ang mga kasalanan natin at hindi sa mabuting gawa para hindi tayo makapagmalaki.]

KATANGAHAN NA NAMAN. BAKIT SINABI BA NAMIN NA NAMATAY SI CRISTO DAHIL SA MABUTING GAWA? NAMATAY SI CRISTO PARA BAYARAN ANG ATING MGA KASALANAN, FINE. PERO ANG SABI NI CRISTO HINDI SAPAT NA I-ACCEPT LANG SIYA NA LORD. KAPAG HINDI SUMUNOD SA KALOOBAN NG DIOS HINDI PA RIN MALILIGTAS. SAAN SA BIBLIA SINABI NI CRISTO NA "DAHIL NAMATAY AKO SA KRUS PARA BAYARAN ANG INYONG MGA KASALANAN KAYA TANGGAPIN NYO LANG AKONG LORD AND SAVIOR E LIGTAS NA KAYO'? SAAN? WHERE? CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE.

TUTUONG NAMATAY SI CRISTO SA KRUS PARA SA ATING MGA KASALANAN. TUTUO YAN DAHIL ARAL YAN NG IGLESIA CATOLICA. SUBALIT WALANG TURO SI CRISTO NA "FAITH ALONE". WALANG WALA.

AT ISA PA, WALANG TINURO SI JESUS NA: "HINDI NYO KAILANGANG GUMAWA NG MABUTI PARA MALIGTAS UPANG HINDI KAYO MAKAPAGMALAKI." ANG TURO NI CRISTO ANG SUMUSUNOD SA KALOOBAN NG DIOS AY MAKAKAPASOK SA LANGIT.

[Nakita po namin yung verse na yon, may iba po bang ibig sabihin yon?]

OO MERON.

ANG IBIG SABIHIN NON E HINDI TAYO DAPAT MAGMALAKI SA DIOS DAHIL SA KANYA NAGMUMULA ANG KALIGTASAN. SUBALIT WALANG SINABI SA VERSE NA IYON NA WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE. WALA AT WALANG WALA. WALANG NAKASAAD DUON NA ANG PAG-AARING GANAP AY BY FAITH ALONE. WALANG WALA.

[Sabi naman ng prof namin sabi sa Santiago ang pananampalataya na wlang gawa ay patay, sagot naman po ng Protestante naming kaklase, ang paggawa ng mabuti ay bunga ng Espiritu Santo kung talagang nananampalataya tayo.]

TANGA ANG PROTESTANTENG KA-KLASE MO.

UNA, ANG PAGGAWA NG MABUTI AY HINDI NAKABASE SA FAITH. DAHIL ANG ESPIRITO SANTO AY NAKAPAGBIBIGAY NG KABUTIHAN KAHAT WALANG FAITH. TIGNAN MO ANG ASO, GUMAGAWA NG MABUTI... MAY FAITH BA ANG ASO? PAPANO ANG MGA NON-BELIEVERS NA MABUBUTING TAO? SI MAHATMA GANDHI AT ANG DALAI LAMA AY NAPAKA BUTI SUBALIT HINDI SUMASAMPALATAYA KAY CRISTO... THEY DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR. KAYA KATANGAHAN ANG TURO NG KA-KLASE MONG PROTESTANTE.

[ Kaya kung patuloy ang isang tao sa PAGGAWA ng masama kahit siya ay may pananampalataya, wala ang Espiritu sa kanya at siya nga ay patay. Mapupunta siya sa IMPYERNO!]

HA HA HA... YAN AY SUPPORTIVE SA POSITION NG CATHOLIC CHURCH. NA KAHIT MAY FAITH KA KUNG WALANG GOOD WORKS IMPIERNO KA PARIN. KAYA NGA ARAL NG DEMONIO ANG TURO NG MGA BORN AGAIN NA FAITH ALONE.

[At kung tutuusin po kahit ang Kristyano po sa bagong tipan ay hindi dinadasalan si Maria, hindi rin naman tinuro ng Panginoon yon.]

ANONG HINDI DINADASALAN SI MARIA? E SA BIBLIA NGA NAKASAAD ANG UNANG PAGPAPAHAYAG NG "HAIL MARY".

KUNG BAWAL DASALAN SI MARIA BAKIT KAYONG MGA BORN AGAIN AY NAGDADASAL SA PASTOR NYO NA IPANALANGIN KAYO AT PATUNGAN NG KAMAY NILA? BAKIT NAGPAPADALA KAYO SA MGA PASTOR NYO SA TV AT RADIO NG MGA PRAYER REQUESTS NA MAY KASAMA PANG BANK ACCOUNTS FOR DONATIONS? MGA IPOCRITO.

[Kahit si Estaban na unang martyr ay hindi po dinadasalan.]

ANONG HINDI. ANG MGA UNANG MARTYR NANG PANANAMPALATAY AY DINADASALAN NG MGA UNANG CRISTIANO DAHIL ANG TURO NI CRISTO ANG MGA NAMATAY NG SUMASAMPALATAYA SA KANYA AY MABUBUHAY:

Jn 11:25-26 "Sinabi sa kaniya ni Jesus, Ako ang pagkabuhay na maguli, at ang kabuhayan: ang sumasampalataya sa akin, bagama't siya'y mamatay, gayon ma'y mabubuhay siya; At ang sinomang nabubuhay at sumasampalataya sa akin ay hindi mamamatay magpakailan man. Sinasampalatayanan mo baga ito?"

SIEMPRE SINASAMPALATAYANAN NAMIN YAN. AT ANG TURO NG BIBLIA DAPAT LAGING MAGDALANGINAN SA ISAT-ISA:

1 Tim 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men...

KAYA NGA IPINAGDADASAL NAMIN SI ESTABAN DAHIL TAO SIYA AT PINAGDADASAL DIN NYA KAMI DAHIL TAO SIYANG NABUBUHAY KAY CRISTO.

[Kung tutuusin po, ipinagbabawal po sa lumang tipan ang dasalan ang mga patay. Eh PATAY po sila di ba?]

SAAN NAKASULAT SA BIBLIA NA BAWAL DASALAN ANG PATAY NA? SAAN? WHERE? CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE. WAG MAG-IMBENTO NG ARAL NA WALA SA BIBLIA.

ANG SABI NI CRISTO ANG MGA SUMASAMPALATAYA SA KANYA KAHIT MAMATAY AY MABUBUHAY. ANG KATAWAN LANG NIYA ANG PATAY SUBALIT ANG KALULUWA AY BUHAY:

Lk 16:22 At nangyari, na namatay ang pulubi at siya'y dinala ng mga anghel sa sinapupunan ni Abraham: at namatay naman ang mayaman, at inilibing.

AYAN NAMATAY ANG PULUBI AT DINALA SA PILING NI ABRAHAM. ANO ANG DINALA KAY ABRAHAM? SIEMPRE YUNG KALULUWA DAHIL ANG BANGKAY AY INILIBING.

Lk 16:23 At sa Hades na nasa mga pagdurusa ay itiningin niya ang kaniyang mga mata, at natanaw sa malayo si Abraham, at si Lazaro ay nasa kaniyang sinapupunan.

AYAN, INILIBING NA ANG MAYAMAN DAHIL NAMATAY SUBALIT NAKAKAKITA PA. NAKITA NYA SI ABRAHAM AT LAZARO NA PAWANG MGA PATAY NA RIN. ANO ANG TUMITINGIN? SIEMPRE ANG KALULUWA.

Lk 16:24 At siya'y sumigaw at sinabi, Amang Abraham, maawa ka sa akin, at suguin mo si Lazaro, upang itubog niya sa tubig ang dulo ng kaniyang daliri, at palamigin ang aking dila; sapagka't naghihirap ako sa alab na ito.

AYAN, KAHIT MAKASALANAN ANG MAYAMAN AY BUHAY ANG KALULUWA.

ANG MASAMA SA KALULUWA NG MGA BORN AGAIN PATI KALULUWA NYO PATAY NA DAHIL SA MAKA-DEMONIO NINYONG ARAL. WALA KAYONG DOCTRINE NG LIFE-AFTER DEATH.

Lk 16:25 Datapuwa't sinabi ni Abraham, Anak, alalahanin mo na ikaw ay tumanggap ng iyong mabubuting bagay sa iyong pamumuhay, at si Lazaro sa gayon ding paraan ay masasamang bagay: datapuwa't ngayon, ay inaaliw siya rini, at ikaw ay nasa kahirapan.

SI ABRAHAM NA ISANG SANTONG NAMATAY AY BUHAY PA ANG KALULUWA. NAGSASALITA, NAKAKAUSAP AT PWEDENG DASALAN. PINAKIKIUSAPAN SIYA NG MAYAMAN NA TULUNGAN SIYA.... THAT IS PRAYING WITH THE DEPARTED SAINT. SI JESUS MISMO ANG NAGTURO N'YAN. IMAGINE, ANG KALULUWANG NAGHIHIRAP AY NAKIKIUSAP SA ISANG SANTO AT HINDI DIRECTANG NAKIKIPAG-USAP SA DIOS. KUNG ANG KALULUWANG MAKASALANAN AY PWEDENG MAKIUSAP KAY ABRAHAM MAS LALO NA ANG MGA MANANAMPALATAYA SA LUPA.

[Isa pa po. Mga ROMANO po nagpapako kay Hesus sa krus. Ano po ngayon yan?]

HA HA HA... TANGA KA PALA E. MGA PAGANONG ROMANO YAN E. HINDI NAMAN KAMI PAGAN ROMANS KUNDI ROMAN CHRISTIANS... WE ARE ROMAN CATHOLICS. YOU MUST LEARN TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE ROMAN PAGANS AND THE ROMAN CHRISTIANS, KUNG PAPANONG MAY MGA CRISTIANONG JUDIO AT MERON DING MGA JUDIO NA GALIT KAY CRISTO.

BAKIT ANG GOOD CENTURION AY ROMAN DIN. AT KUNG HINDI KA TANGA SA BIBLIA MERONG SULAT SI SAN PABLO SA MGA TAGA ROMA. ALAM MO BA YON? ANG NUMBER ONE EPISTLE SA NEW TESTAMENT AFTER THE GOSPEL AND ACTS AY ANG EPISTLE TO THE ROMANS. HE HE HE...

ALAM MO BA KUNG ANO ANG SABI NI PABLO SA AMING MGA ROMAN CHRISTIANS? ITO:

Rom 1:7 Sa lahat ninyong nangasa Roma, mga iniibig ng Dios, tinawag na mangagbanal: Sumainyo nawa ang biyaya at kapayapaang mula sa Dios na ating Ama at Panginoong Jesucristo.

ANO ANG SABI NI PABLO? ANG MGA TAGA ROMA DAW AY INIIBIG NG DIOS. HA HA HA... KAMI YON. INIIBIG KAMI NG DIOS. KAYO GALIT SA MGA TAGA ROMA KASI KAMPON KAYO NG AMA NYONG DIABLO. MGA DEMONIONG GALING SA ESTADOS UNIDOS KUN SAAN NANGGALING ANG MGA CONTRACEPTIVE PILLS, CONDOMS, PORNOGRAPHIC FILMS AND MATERIALS, DIVORCE, ABORTIONS, SAME SEX MARRIAGE AT IBA PANG MGA KARUMAL DUMAL NA BAGAY GALING SA PINAKA MALALIM NA SULOK NG IMPIERNONG INYONG PINAG-USBUNGAN.

Rom 1:8 Kaunaunahan, ay nagpapasalamat ako sa aking Dios sa pamamagitan ni Jesucristo tungkol sa inyong lahat, na ang inyong pananampalataya ay bantog sa buong sanglibutan.

AYAN, ANG PANANAMPALATAYA DAW NG MGA ROMAN CHRISTIANS AY BANTOG SA BUONG DAIGDIG. TUTUO YON KASI KAMING MGA ROMAN CATHOLICS ANG PINAKA SIKAT AT PINAKA TANYAG SA LAHAT NG CHRISTIAN GROUPS. NO MATCH SAMIN ANG IBA. SAPAL LANG KAYONG MGA BORN AGAIN KUMPARA SA CHURCH OF ROME.

[Pasensya na po, pero ito ay mga bagay na bumabagabak sa akin.]

OK LANG. OBVIOUS NAMAN NA NABABAGABAG KA KASI ARAL NG DEMONIO ANG PINANG HAHAWAKAN MO. NAGPA-ULOL KA SA MGA BORN AGAIN.

[Kasi mas mabuti po na mas paniwalaan natin ang galing mismo sa bibig ng Panginoon kaysa sa turo ng tao lamang.]

TAMA. KAYA NGA ARAL NG DEMONIO ANG FAITH ALONE DAHIL SI MARTIN LUTHER LANG ANG NAG-IMBENTO NYAN. HINDI YAN ARAL NI CRISTO AT NG BIBLIA.

[Mahirap na, KALIGTASAN ng kaluluwa po ang nakataya dito.]

OO KAYA MATAKOT KA PARA SA IYONG KALULUWA.

[Gusto ko man makapgsalita pero nanggaling po sa Bibliya yung sinasabi nila.]

HINDI NANGGALING SA BIBLIA ANG SINASABI NILA. NAGKATAON LANG NA IGNORANTE KA SA BIBLIA KAYA NALOLOKO KA NILA. MAGBASA KA NG BIBLIA FROM COVER TO COVER.

[Eh baka kontrahin ko po ng katuruan lang ng katekismo, eh mas mabigat po ang Bibliya di po ba?]

ANG CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS BIBLICAL.

May 3, 2011 11:36 AM

Last Part : Protestant who forgot his Bible verse....Conclusion

Conclusion:

I realize it is hard to be a Protestant. Some verses in the Bible works, and most of it doesn't.

My opponent uses old issues about Catholicism. Just imagine it all started about "Mary, the Mother of God", down to indulgence. It is true, Protestant are hard headed with comes to Mary, Angels, and Saints.

What I could not understand to the Protestant side is that; Why take a Authority from a Book rather from the source? The Bible does not speak of Authority to it self...Plus, the Apostles at that time knew only the Old Testament. I think if Saint Paul only knew his letters would be used in the Bible, he might clear some words or phrases he is using.

Protestants love to quote Saint Paul, and left Jesus' saying as merely spiritual.

My opponent claims that they had traditions from the early church. The truth is they do not have any tradition linked to the Apostles to start with.

When my opponent could not answer about the tradition, he never backed it up, and never spoke of it again. Protestant always do that...hide their tail when Catholic Apologist try eating their argument whole.

I think the only way a Protestant's win in any discussion is when Catholics does not know anything about their faith. As a Filipino, being a Catholics is being part of the history and culture of our country.

If you are a Protestant living in the Philippines; you would be wasting time in church built inside Malls, or stuck your self at home, when every body is singing Christmas carols. In other words, Protestant punished themselves for not seeing the truth of it.

Part 4: Protestant who forgot his Bible verse....

The undeniable truth is, we Catholics had a wonderful and colorful Church history, and with it the Bible. The only problem sometimes is that we forget who and what the real Church look like.

We sometimes let Protestants jumble our Tradition. In which we taught we had committed the gravest sin in the world...

Here is another discussion with Paul, a Protestant. Look a his ever changing statements. This mean that he is an average Protestant. Paul and his kind wish to grab all things that is tasteful and useful for their own accord.

Paul Cesar Duran

Archie,

You are right about saints being in heaven and on earth.... because God's people are saints... not only those canonized by the Roman Catholic church, but all those who believe in God are called saints....This topic has been one of the more heatedly discussed in this DB some time ago... I don't know why the topic was "mysteriously" taken off the discussion board... perhaps someone doesn't want others to know that saints are not only those canonized by the Roman Catholic church... the topic just disappeared when the discussion was centered on Ephesians 6: 18....Mysterious huh?

But the prayers referred to which rises with the smoke of the incense are prayers of adoration.... they are prayers of thanksgiving... they are prayers of praise and worship.... and they are prayed by the saints which are in heaven and on earth....

And then you're saying that when you pray to the saints that it strengthens your love to God--- by what? By making the saints take the role of Jesus Christ in hearing our prayers? Jesus Christ is always interceding for us... that is his role, not the saints' or Mary's.....

Hebrews 7:25
New International Version (NIV)
25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

And then you're asking what do angels do?? They're worshiping God, too.... that's what they do, they render service to God by obeying his commands

Archie Gene Gallardo

[You are right about saints being in heaven and on earth.... because God's people are saints... not only those canonized by the Roman Catholic church, but all those who believe in God are called saints...]

Canonization of the Saints, were termed used to Saints who we Catholics believe reached heaven. Off course there are more un-heard names of people who might lived Saintly lives. They are just to confirm to the faithful to the whole Universal Church that this person is worthy of veneration....meaning worthy to study his/her life....imitate how he/she prays or how these Saints lived.


[And then you're saying that when you pray to the saints that it strengthens your love to God--- by what? By making the saints take the role of Jesus Christ in hearing our prayers? Jesus Christ is always interceding for us... that is his role, not the saints' or Mary's.....]

Well, the Saints for us Catholics are the living proof that God loves His children. How? When Catholics starts to study their life they see that those Saints live by the teachings of Jesus Christ. Especially when Paul said in Phil. 3:17 says to imitate him and others.

Yes, it is true Jesus intercede for us...but the Bible also taught us to mediate for other and even Jesus tells us about it.

In Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate

And in Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3).

Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.

Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.

John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary's intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.

Now About Mary....

In John 2:5 Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.

John 2:11 in fact, it was Mary's intercession that started Jesus' ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary's intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.

[But the prayers referred to which rises with the smoke of the incense are prayers of adoration.... they are prayers of thanksgiving... they are prayers of praise and worship.... and they are prayed by the saints which are in heaven and on earth..]

True, praise and worship....it also true that they are prayers of Saints in heaven and on earth....Remember Paul urges us to Pray one another? and within those prayers are thanks giving coming from people who intercede for them....

Like when you pray for your parents....and within your prayer you know what these folks prayed to God for their petition.... and again together with them you would pray their petition to God....and in the end of your prayer or before your prayer starts words of adoration comes first...In a Catholic who had personal relationship with Jesus Christ....we make sure to pray for others....and we ask Saints in heaven to pray for them in front of the throne of God.

[And then you're asking what do angels do?? They're worshiping God, too.... that's what they do, they render service to God by obeying his commands]

Yes it is true....Also Remember that it responds to St. Peter too...in Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.

In addition to that this verse Heb. 1:14 – “Are they not all ministering spirits sent to serve, for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?” This verse clearly indicates that God created the angels to help us achieve salvation.

Archie Gene Gallardo

If you have time see Tobit 3:17 Angel Raphael was sent to heal them both: to remove the cataracts from Tobit's eyes, so that he might again see God's sunlight; and to marry Raguel's daughter Sarah to Tobit's son Tobiah, and then drive the wicked demon Asmodeus from her.”

Well I know that we had a different Bible.... we still use Septuagint Bible.

Paul Cesar Duran

Archie,

God responds to the prayers and then command his angels..... why are you saying that angels responded to the prayer of Peter????

The angels responded to the commands of God....

God should take the credit to Peter's prayer being answered... not the angel... hello???

In John 2: 5, Mary told the servants to obey Jesus... why is it that you are giving so much credit to Mary when it was Jesus who was actually helping us out????

And what intercession did Mary do in this incident??? Did the servants request of Mary to ask from Jesus the wine that they needed????

No..... because Mary merely commented that there was no more wine.... you are making such a big deal with this incident simply because it was Mary who made the comment...Jesus knows when to do his miracles, He does not need others to point them out to Him... He knows His own agenda.... He has a time frame of when, how, why, where....

Archie Gene Gallardo

[God responds to the prayers and then command his angels..... why are you saying that angels responded to the prayer of Peter????

The angels responded to the commands of God....

God should take the credit to Peter's prayer being answered... not the angel... hello???]

True, and unfortunately you did not get it right. It only shows that Angels do something else rather than praising and worshiping God. That is all then verse shows. It elaborately described that Saints do not take away honors that were due to God...Simply Protestants loose its way on it.


[In John 2: 5, Mary told the servants to obey Jesus... why is it that you are giving so much credit to Mary when it was Jesus who was actually helping us out????]

Hello? Are you a Disciple of Jesus? You commend the Father and Jesus.....BUT you hate the mother of Christ! Sorry not hate.....but rather dishonored in a way....

Paul Cesar Duran

It is God who responds....... don't you get it?

Angels merely obey God...that's what angels are doing.... obeying. They are not receiving our prayers and then offering it to God....( and by the way Archie, are you praying to angels ,too?)

The dishonor that you are saying Archie is intended to the people's worship of Mary.

I'm not saying that Mary is not the mother of Jesus Christ....
I'm not saying that Mary is not blessed....
I'm not saying that Mary does not deserve honor....
I'm not saying that Mary is not worthy of respect....

What I'm saying is that the credit that is due to Christ should not be given to anyone else....because you are giving credit to Mary which is due to God alone, that's why I may appear like I don't respect Mary... but as a matter of fact I do... I respect what Mary did... she is blessed because she obeyed God's command....

But to pray to her? What can she do with my prayers? What can she do for my salvation?

Isaiah 48:11
New International Version (NIV)

11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this.
How can I let myself be defamed?
I will not yield my glory to another.

God deserves our reverence because he is our mediator --- 1 Tim. 2: 5

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

God deserves our reverence because he is our intercessor --- Heb. 7: 25

Hebrews 7:25
Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

God deserves our reverence because he gave sooooooooo much just to glorify his name... to sanctify his name apart from any other name --- Acts 4: 12

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Paul Cesar Duran

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/219228/nation/quiapo-church-to-show-pope-john-paul-ii39s-relic-to-public

Just so you would know where the people's faith is nowadays, Archie...

Kissing relics... can you imagine people's faith being corrupted by this relics?
Do you understand what I'm driving at Archie?

People simply believe what they can see... their faith is weak when there are no materials, relics, objects, tools, idols, rosary, pictures, etc.... which would represent God...

Reflect on it Archie.... Jesus Christ is the answer Archie...

Archie Gene Gallardo

I do understand you....but Faith is SUBJECTIVE!!!! It is not universal declaration of one's faith.... For example....we venerate the Bible BUT we DO NOT BELIEVE that GOD mean every word it had....we though had a face to face value of it....but not as Literal as Protestants want it to be.

Kissing relics are expressions of one's faith. I do venerate relics...especially the relic of the true cross...But that is only a relic....I could kiss it....but I can't worship it...However I could worship the owner of the cross...

Reflect on every verse...we Catholics hold on....not only John 3:16....Jesus is the true way Paul....and Yes we live according to early Christians traditions....

FYI... When you say idolatry....it means you take a non-living thing as God... We don't.

Bowing is a gesture of giving honor...we Catholics give honor to whom is due honor...

Rather reflect on these verses....

Deut. 5:9 - God's command, "you shall not bow down to them" means "do not worship them." But not all bowing is worship. Here God's command is connected to false worship.

Rev. 3:9 - Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship, just as kissing a picture of a family member is not worship.

Gen. 19:1 - Lot bowed down to the ground in veneration before two angels in Sodom.

Gen. 24:52 - Abraham's servant bowed himself to the earth before the Lord.

Gen. 42:6 - Joseph's brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground.

Jos. 5:14 - Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an angel.

1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.

1 Kings 1:23 - the prophet Nathan bows down before King David.

2 Kings 2:15 - the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha at Jericho.

1 Chron. 21:21 - Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David with his face to the ground.

1 Chron. 29:20 - Israelites bowed down to worship God and give honor to the king.

2 Chron. 29:29-30 - King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.

Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael.

Judith 14:7 - Achior the Ammonite kneels before Judith venerating her and praising God.

Psalm 138:2 - David bows down before God's Holy Temple.

Dan. 2:46 - the king fell down on his face paying homage to Daniel and commands that an offering be made to him.

Dan. 8:17 - Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.

1 Macc. 4:40,55 - Judas and the faithful fell face down to the ground to praise heaven and worship God.

2 Macc. 10:4,26; 13:12 - Maccabeus and his followers fall down prostrate praying to God.

Archie Gene Gallardo

Our Rosary.....imagery....or statues do not represent God... However, we believe in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

Imagery is again en expression of Art, and a imagery tool for learning. We use all senses to feel God's prints...example depicting beautiful flowers....it represents God's beauty but not God....

The BIBLE represent the fullness of Faith we Catholics have....

The Rosary are prayers taken from the Bible.... It speaks of a woman of full of Grace....filled by God.

Again it is not worshiping Mary....Only missed informed Protestants wants us to say words we did not say....

If I may....if you found these verses in your Bible you can blot this out..

Lk 1:28
Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.

Lk 1:42
Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

I think the ONLY issue in the Roman Catholic Church today....are no longer about the issue you wish to raise....BUT some serious issues. Doctrinally we conform the Christian Traditions at all times...

How about Bible worship? You believe that the Bible is at literal as it is....How about Protestants using Masoteric Text conformed by Luther...

Protestants do not have hard theology background....they only sing and pray longer as Pharisee's did.

Addendum

Protestants do not have true Christian History to begin with....


Those are the bitter truth....But Catholics around the word does not mind them either. We believe that Protestants and Catholics do find common ground.

There are Protestants who found themselves Catholic!

Paul Cesar Duran

Archie,

The verses you posted above as regard to bowing, did not show that they were bowing to graven images like your graven idols...

When you kiss relics it simply goes to show that you give value to those relics. Remember that God is Spirit, Archie .... remember that....

You cannot and will not place a graven images of a certain saint upside down, can you?...

Do you know why?

Because you give it value... you give it sense...you give it worth... that is worship Archie... worship does not altogether mean that you bow down to it... simply that you give it worth... and please do not tell me that they are just 'tools', if they are just "tools", how come you offer food to them during certain occasions? That is why I'm telling you to give the credit where it's due Archie.... Jesus Christ mentioned none of it during his short stay here... did he command us to have graven images for "tools"? Look where your faith is directed.... if it really is directed to God, then you don't need images... just set your heart on the thought that God is there with you, seeing your every move...

And by the way, we do not interpret the Bible verses literally Archie... that's just your opinion....

Mary is blessed Archie, there's no question about that... and I believe she already got her reward in heaven...but look at the kind of worth you're giving her... too much adoration already.... only Jesus deserves that kind of adoration... and no one else.

Archie Gene Gallardo

[Because you give it value... you give it sense...you give it worth... that is worship Archie... worship does not altogether mean that you bow down to it... simply that you give it worth]

WRONG!!!! If does mean you worship your Bible? You show meaning to it right?

[Jesus Christ mentioned none of it during his short stay here... did he command us to have graven images for "tools"? Look where your faith is directed.]

Did he say NO to it? How about the Ark of the Covenant? It had images and placed at the Holy of Holies?

[if it really is directed to God, then you don't need images... just set your heart on the thought that God is there with you, seeing your every move...]

All Catholics know that.... But that is not OUR point.... Protestants need art....that's it.... too dry....poor theology

[And by the way, we do not interpret the Bible verses literally Archie... that's just your opinion....]

Ow....really...so John 3:16 does not mean Faith alone could save us?

[Mary is blessed Archie, there's no question about that... and I believe she already got her reward in heaven...but look at the kind of worth you're giving her... too much adoration already.... only Jesus deserves that kind of adoration... and no one else.]

We do not adore her....we venerate her....define to me adoration to Protestant view point...????

Archie Gene Gallardo

Addendum
[Mary is blessed Archie, there's no question about that... and I believe she already got her reward in heaven]

if she is in heaven and you believe she is blessed....why can't you type "Blessed Mary"? And if is in heaven why can't you believe in communion of the Saints?

Wow...a Protestant turning Catholic? Just imagine.....he believe our Mother Mary is in heaven and yet could not imitate her...how come?

Protestant believing in Assumption!!!! Few more steps.....

Paul Cesar Duran

{{{WRONG!!!! If does mean you worship your Bible? You show meaning to it right?}}}

We give worth to the words written in the Bible, that's why we read it everyday... we bring our Bible to church, too... we do not literally bow down to the Bible, like what you're doing with your graven images... we use it as our guide in living the kind of life Jesus wants us to live.

Archie Gene Gallardo

[We give worth to the words written in the Bible, that's why we read it everyday... we bring our Bible to church, too... we do not literally bow down to the Bible, like what you're doing with your graven images... we use it as our guide in living the kind of life Jesus wants us to live.]

Yeah right...not bowing to a book....but can't be a Christian without the Bible's point of view... The Bible tells Protestant what to do....Oh....Did your church taught that the Bible is Authoritative regarding to your salvation? How is that?

Protestant used the Bible as a work book out line? huh?

[we use it as our guide in living the kind of life Jesus wants us to live.]

Ohhh....Where did Jesus said "Read the 66 books!!!! for your salvation?"
Jesus said Proclaim the Good news!!!! not Print and let be read by all....print with NIV on it....

Paul Cesar Duran

We cannot proclaim unless we read it first. You see Archie, learning about salvation has to begin with the individual's need for it. We do not just learn something as essential simply because our parents handed it down to us... not all of the time...

Zechariah 7:11-12

11 “But they refused to pay attention; stubbornly they turned their backs and covered their ears. 12 They made their hearts as hard as flint and would not listen to the law or to the words that the LORD Almighty had sent by his Spirit through the earlier prophets. So the LORD Almighty was very angry.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You know what Archie, I am proclaiming the Good News to others...house to house.... no donations... no debates.... not recommending the church... just proclaiming the message of Christ... the Good News...we learn about Jesus Christ because of what we read in the Bible...are you saying that you are getting some points of view from other gospel? C'mon Archie...

Archie Gene Gallardo

[You know what Archie, I am proclaiming the Good News to others...house to house.... no donations... no debates.... not recommending the church... just proclaiming the message of Christ... the Good News...we learn about Jesus Christ because of what we read in the Bible...are you saying that you are getting some points of view from other gospel? C'mon Archie...]

C'mon Paul.....now you JUST proclaim the message....Another Protestant hitch... I did not say I got new gospels...not like Protestants liking our Bible.

I asked you where in the Bible: Does Jesus said read the Bible? Does Salvation relies on Scripture alone?

Protestants MUST meet the metal tightly especially when it grinds them whole...

Archie Gene Gallardo

Another Protestant big mistake....I strongly advice you never used this verse to us....

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hmmmm....sound convincing? Let me dissect it....

2 Tim. 3:16-17 to prove that the Bible is the sole authority of God's word. But examining these texts disproves their claim. Here, Paul appeals to apostolic tradition right before the Protestants... Paul totally ignore it....typical Protestant....

> Equipped or Profitable does not mean mandatory....

Paul...meditate on this....

2 Tim. 3:16 - further, the verse "all Scripture" uses the words "pasa graphe" which actually means every (not all) Scripture. This means every passage of Scripture is useful. Thus, the erroneous Protestant reading of "pasa graphe" would mean every single passage of Scripture is exclusive. This would mean Christians could not only use "sola Matthew," or "sola Mark," but could rely on one single verse from a Gospel as the exclusive authority of God's word. This, of course, is not true and even Protestants would agree. Also, "pasa graphe" cannot mean "all of Scripture" because there was no New Testament canon to which Paul could have been referring, unless Protestants argue that the New Testament is not being included by Paul.

Archie Gene Gallardo

Addendum....

2 Tim. 3:16 -

also, these inspired Old Testament Scriptures Paul is referring to included the deuterocanonical books which the Protestants removed from the Bible 1,500 years later.

2 Tim. 3:17 -

Paul's reference to the "man of God" who may be complete refers to a clergyman, not a layman.

It is an instruction to a bishop of the Church. So, although Protestants use it to prove their case, the passage is not even relevant to most of the faithful.

PAUL!!! don't forget this verse.....

Phil. 4:9

- Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. There is nothing ever about obeying Scripture alone.

and this one....

1 Thess. 2:13 –

Paul says, “when you received the word of God, which you heard from us..” How can the Bible be teaching first century Christians that only the Bible is their infallible source of teaching if, at the same time, oral revelation was being given to them as well?

Protestants can’t claim that there is one authority (Bible) while allowing two sources of authority (Bible and oral revelation).

Archie Gene Gallardo

Re: Salvation

[We cannot proclaim unless we read it first. You see Archie, learning about salvation has to begin with the individual's need for it. We do not just learn something as essential simply because our parents handed it down to us... not all of the time...]

hmmmm.......so humbling.....but still Protestant fallacy lurks... So you can not proclaim the Good News without reading it.... it seems that you Protestants can not proclaim without reading the Bible right?

So did Jesus taught you..like this..."Read your Bible for you to proclaim the Good News!!!!" Jesus read the OT.... but He does not used OT as His source of Authority not like Protestant who can't do anything without their 66 Books of the Bible.

[You see Archie, learning about salvation has to begin with the individual's need for it]

All individual need it. You can not say "to individuals needing it...it is not a "Learning process where you are saved ones you read your Bible..." Did Jesus told the other thief.... you must know salvation first?

Paul all need it....

Archie Gene Gallardo

Paul....this verse speaks for it self..

Zechariah 7:11-12

11 “But they refused to pay attention; stubbornly they turned their backs and covered their ears. 12 They made their hearts as hard as flint and would not LISTEN to the law or to the WORDS that the LORD Almighty had sent by his Spirit through the earlier prophets. So the LORD Almighty was very angry.

It furthers destroys the Bible alone belief.... read it as loud as you can... Thank you for posting it....

Plus....see verse 12.... Prophets can preach through the Holy Spirit....not because the MUST read it first not like your so called pastors.

Paul Cesar Duran

Archie asks:
{{{I asked you where in the Bible: Does Jesus said read the Bible? Does Salvation relies on Scripture alone?}}}

People learned of the Good News from Jesus Christ... now, Jesus Christ's teachings were recorded in the Bible... that's why I read the Bible...

I was not there when Jesus taught... I was not there when he made his comments... I heard or learned about the message of Jesus Christ when I started reading the recorded accounts of him in the Bible... of course you know this Archie, because you are also reading the Bible, right?

Unless of course, when what was preached to you was not in the Bible....

If what you have believed is written in the Bible, then why is it that you question the authority of the Bible as the written word of God?

You know why? Because of early traditions handed down from our elders.

People find it hard to just let go of old practices... that's why Christ's message was hard to understand because people are trying to place new wine into old wineskin.

When Jesus Christ told us to love our enemies, we obey right?

Right Archie? Do you love your enemies? If yes, then you are obeying God.

Where did we learn about loving our enemies, Archie? In the Bible, right? We have read it from the Bible.

Archie Gene Gallardo

[People learned of the Good News from Jesus Christ... now, Jesus Christ's teachings were recorded in the Bible... that's why I read the Bible...]

People learned of the Good news from Jesus? Are you really Christian? Jesus is the Good News.... NOT ALL are recorded in NT Paul....

Open your Bible and see:

John 20:30; 21:25

- Jesus did many other things not written in the Scriptures. These have been preserved through the oral apostolic tradition and they are equally a part of the Deposit of Faith.

[I was not there when Jesus taught... I was not there when he made his comments... I heard or learned about the message of Jesus Christ when I started reading the recorded accounts of him in the Bible... of course you know this Archie, because you are also reading the Bible, right?]

Again Protestant Fallacy....

[If what you have believed is written in the Bible, then why is it that you question the authority of the Bible as the written word of God?]

I believe in the Bible, but I do not believe that the Bible had Authority alone.... May I asked who Authorized the Bible?

Paul Cesar Duran

Luke 1:3

3 With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,

Archie, some words in the Bible may not have been written TO us, but they were written FOR us... don't you understand?

Is there written anything wrong in the Bible?

The phrase -- " pray for us sinners" --- is not found in the Bible, but you have included it in your prayers...

That simple phrase change the whole meaning of how we look at Mary... venerate you say? I don't think so....

I once saw an old woman kneeling in front of a statue of Mary....

Not worshiping? I don't think so...

Archie Gene Gallardo

Addendum
[You know why? Because of early traditions handed down from our elders.]

hmmm traditions? Is that Oral not written in the Bible? How come you protestant believe in Authority of the Bible and yet claiming you had traditions...You do not have elders to come with...you are protestant...maybe you can claim Luther as your elder.

[People find it hard to just let go of old practices... that's why Christ's message was hard to understand because people are trying to place new wine into old wineskin.]

Irrelevant....

Paul Cesar Duran

{{{hmmm traditions? Is that Oral not written in the Bible? How come you protestant believe in Authority of the Bible and yet claiming you had traditions...You do not have elders to come with...you are protestant...maybe you can claim Luther as your elder.}}}

I was talking about EARLY traditions... not literally OUR OWN traditions.... early traditions of people...

Archie Gene Gallardo

[I was talking about EARLY traditions... not literally OUR OWN traditions.... early traditions of people... ]

You do not have EARLY traditions...because if you do you are a Catholic. The truth is you are a Protestant.

Show me your traditions....